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Accounting software company sees Linux demand from clients wary of Microsoft
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September 26, 2002 (8:00:00 AM)
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-By Grant Gross -
ACCPAC International received little attention when it released its mid-range enterprise accounting package for the Linux desktop a month ago, but company officials believe the move will pay off in the form of more customers.
ACCPAC International received little attention when it released its mid-range enterprise accounting package for the Linux desktop a month ago, but company officials believe the move will pay off in the form of more customers.
The ACCPAC Advantage Series packages -- aimed at mid-sized companies too large to run home/small office accounting software and not big enough to need huge packages like PeopleSoft -- is the first mid-range accounting package to run on Linux servers and Linux desktops, according to ACCPAC. The company, which calls itself "the Switzerland of software," wants to give its customers choices, especially after widespread concerns raised this summer over Microsoft's new licensing scheme, says Craig Downing, ACCPAC v.p. for product management.
While ACCPAC PR people haven't been able to produce a potential customer for an interview, Downing says customers have been asking for ACCPAC's accounting packages on Linux. "People are looking at the [Linux] desktop more and more," he says. "Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but I think it's an inevitability that you'll see Linux on the desktop at companies."
Downing says about 40% of potential Linux customers are companies concerned about Microsoft's licensing fees. Most of the rest are "Linux-by-choice" companies, often driven by their IT departments.
Offering the Linux option also gives ACCPAC's resellers a new way to differentiate themselves, Downing says. Those resellers can pitch the accounting application, while telling customers they don't have to be locked into one operating system. There's no need for retraining on a new accounting package if a customer switches.
"Even some of our customers that have been Microsoft-centric are hedging their bets," Downing says of the attitude he hears from clients.
Alan Perry, president of ACCPAC reseller ASP Information Systems of Boston, Massachusetts, says ACCPAC's Linux offering will allow companies to deploy mixed Linux and Microsoft environments, which lets companies gradually migrate to Linux, instead of turning around on a dime.
Perry has clients with the objective of being "Microsoft-free," and he expects significant sales of the Linux ACCPAC product, which, he notes, is a mature, stable product, "not a 1.0 release."
"I think the Linux platform is ready for the desktop," he says. "Here, we have an application that will run on the Linux platform as well as it will run on the Windows platform."
Perry, too, sees customers questioning whether they want to pay more for Microsoft licenses this year. "This is not the year to be piling on to these people who have been good customers," he says. "We've seen very favorable reaction with people saying they want to look at Linux this year because of Microsoft's new policies on maintenance of their products."
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on Accounting software company sees Linux demand from clients wary of MicrosoftNote: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
Let's have all Macromedia and adobe products next.
Then you'll see a significant rise of linux on he desktop. After all is said and done Linux does work well but to use those products you have to boot Windows or Mac.
Yes, don't give that crap that linux is not ready for the desktop in business yet. All it takes is for the boss to say "We are using Linux". The workers will get used to it and open office.
70% of all businesses could convert now.
Those other 30% cannot because of the VBA applications and access.
Then you'll see a significant rise of linux on he desktop. After all is said and done Linux does work well but to use those products you have to boot Windows or Mac.
Yes, don't give that crap that linux is not ready for the desktop in business yet. All it takes is for the boss to say "We are using Linux". The workers will get used to it and open office.
70% of all businesses could convert now.
Those other 30% cannot because of the VBA applications and access.
You know, I so want to be a believer too, but it is just not ready yet! I've had linux on various computers for over 4 years and just can't say that MY linux on the desktop (KDE or GNOME) is any more stable than the competition. Sometimes even worse!
Oh, my company could do fine without VBA and Access, but AutoCAD pays the bills here. No linux yet, but OpenOffice is a huge step in the right direction.
Oh, my company could do fine without VBA and Access, but AutoCAD pays the bills here. No linux yet, but OpenOffice is a huge step in the right direction.
how many times has kde or gnome crashed you kernel
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 27, 2002 04:41 AM
Very little if ever?
"ctrl + alt + backspace" startx
faster than a reboot certainly
I cant even recall the last time i had a crash on kde.
"ctrl + alt + backspace" startx
faster than a reboot certainly
I cant even recall the last time i had a crash on kde.
Re:how many times has kde or gnome crashed you ker
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 27, 2002 08:49 PM
Again, you emphasize my point. Linux is ROCK solid,...Gnome, KDE, etc., are not! "ctrl + alt + backspace" is a crash in my book. As a matter of fact, I'm running Mandrake 8.2 as we speak on my laptop and still can make changes in the Control Panel without Gandalf asking me to send a bug report. I'm a glutton for punishment though. Mdrake 9.0 will be replacing 8.2 in about 45 minutes!
Re:how many times has kde or gnome crashed you ker
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 29, 2002 05:19 PM
I've never had a kernel crash, even doing some pretty exotic software development with kernel modules.
In our company our 450 users each run 20+ applications everyday that only run in windows.
We estimate that by 2005 we will run about 30+ applications.
Each user everyday runs.
Norton Antivirus
Outlook
Access
Excel
Word
Powerpoint
Project 2000
WinZip
Ws_FTP
Label Maker Pro
Lawson Client
Maximizer
ACT
Tiny Term
FoxPro 2.5
UPS software
Windows 98
Autocad for the engineers
Linux just cannot do all that with the same
effeciency. It's just that simple.
We estimate that by 2005 we will run about 30+ applications.
Each user everyday runs.
Norton Antivirus
Outlook
Access
Excel
Word
Powerpoint
Project 2000
WinZip
Ws_FTP
Label Maker Pro
Lawson Client
Maximizer
ACT
Tiny Term
FoxPro 2.5
UPS software
Windows 98
Autocad for the engineers
Linux just cannot do all that with the same
effeciency. It's just that simple.
Linux just cannot do all that with the same effeciency. It's just that simple.
No - it's not that simple.
I used to build GNU/Linux systems from scratch. I can talk to you about system efficiency.
I once built a GNU/Linux system that booted on a network w/ DHCP and into a CLI in less than 8 seconds from when the BIOS screen exited. That was on a PII 350 MHz w/ 192 Mb RAM.
MS Windows booted on the same system in over 1 minute and 30 seconds - and that's not loading an antivirus package during bootup.
Using the system was smooth and fast. Booting into GUI mode (Again, starting from exiting the BIOS init and counting logging in) took less than 15 seconds. My mp3's never skipped. I was compiling software (which, FYI, maxes out the CPU and stresses the memory), playing mp3's, browsing the web, and using AbiWord - all at once, and without any lag<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....
on hardware that is now over 4 years old!
Now, all I do is install Red Hat - turn off unneeded daemons, recompile the kernel, and run the updates and I can achieve nearly this level of speed.
Within an hour, I'm up and running - on average at least 2 or 3 times faster than Windows on the same machine.
Doesn't have the efficiency?
I don't blame you for thinking that. Out of the box, most distributions are fairly dismal. However, for an even menially experienced system optimizer - almost any of these distributions runs wonderfully.
No - it's not that simple.
I used to build GNU/Linux systems from scratch. I can talk to you about system efficiency.
I once built a GNU/Linux system that booted on a network w/ DHCP and into a CLI in less than 8 seconds from when the BIOS screen exited. That was on a PII 350 MHz w/ 192 Mb RAM.
MS Windows booted on the same system in over 1 minute and 30 seconds - and that's not loading an antivirus package during bootup.
Using the system was smooth and fast. Booting into GUI mode (Again, starting from exiting the BIOS init and counting logging in) took less than 15 seconds. My mp3's never skipped. I was compiling software (which, FYI, maxes out the CPU and stresses the memory), playing mp3's, browsing the web, and using AbiWord - all at once, and without any lag<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....
on hardware that is now over 4 years old!
Now, all I do is install Red Hat - turn off unneeded daemons, recompile the kernel, and run the updates and I can achieve nearly this level of speed.
Within an hour, I'm up and running - on average at least 2 or 3 times faster than Windows on the same machine.
Doesn't have the efficiency?
I don't blame you for thinking that. Out of the box, most distributions are fairly dismal. However, for an even menially experienced system optimizer - almost any of these distributions runs wonderfully.
Lets break it down and see how far you are from being able to run Linux on the desktop.
Norton Antivirus
- we'll just ignore that
Outlook
- Ximian Evolution offers the same features and you can even keep Exchange if you wish
Access
- If you are using Access as an RDBMS, you should consider upsizing. I know its simple and easy, but its not a good idea to be sloppy with business rules and Access encourages this.
Excel
Word
Powerpoint
- Depending on your company's level of sophistication, you may have varyting levels of success with OpenOffice or StarOffice
Project 2000
- This is a hole in open source. There is no good option here.
WinZip
- zip and unzip manage this format. tar is equivalent
Ws_FTP
- got that
Label Maker Pro
- this is actually the reason why I don't think you Access - Office integration is tight. You should be printing labels from your database through your word processor
Lawson Client
- I hope that Lawson come out with a Linux client soon, but until then<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
Maximizer
- I hate to keep beating on the database issue, but it really is important to do this
ACT
- Maximizer and Act?
Tiny Term
- this will be only slighty less necessary than an antivirus package
FoxPro 2.5
- Again, you need a consistent database solution. This is very, very important.
UPS software
- this has a web-based interface
Windows 98
- Gnome or KDE
Autocad for the engineers
- This, like Project, is a deal breaker. I wouldn't suggest top your engineeres that they switch and I'm sure you aren't going to either<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)
Well, unfortunately you don't qualify for a full and total migration to Linux. AutoCad, Lawson, and Project do not at this time have Linux ports or adequate replacements.
However, you are certainly in the market to start a Linux migration starting in the server room. I know without asking that you have data problems. Any company that has sales, contact, and other other data information spread across Access, FoxPro, Act, Maximizer, and LabelMaker Pro has data management problems by definition. You need a database server. My advice would be to build a specific business case. Once you get the idea that its needed, price out a SQL Server 2000 solution and a Linux solution (and of the four open source databases will probably work for you). The SQL Server quote is merely to give the open source solution added flavor.
This will reduce your desktops to AutoCad, Project, Office and Lawson. Target the Office users first. Point out the vulnerabilities, record the virus hit, and plan a migration.
Some offices may find a full replacement of Linux is possible. However, this is pretty new. For a long time, this piecemeal, one at a time transition has been the norm. And, to tell you the truth, a staggered transition is often the smoothest answer. If you want to make the switch, it sounds more than possible to make a business case in your situation.
Norton Antivirus
- we'll just ignore that
Outlook
- Ximian Evolution offers the same features and you can even keep Exchange if you wish
Access
- If you are using Access as an RDBMS, you should consider upsizing. I know its simple and easy, but its not a good idea to be sloppy with business rules and Access encourages this.
Excel
Word
Powerpoint
- Depending on your company's level of sophistication, you may have varyting levels of success with OpenOffice or StarOffice
Project 2000
- This is a hole in open source. There is no good option here.
WinZip
- zip and unzip manage this format. tar is equivalent
Ws_FTP
- got that
Label Maker Pro
- this is actually the reason why I don't think you Access - Office integration is tight. You should be printing labels from your database through your word processor
Lawson Client
- I hope that Lawson come out with a Linux client soon, but until then<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
Maximizer
- I hate to keep beating on the database issue, but it really is important to do this
ACT
- Maximizer and Act?
Tiny Term
- this will be only slighty less necessary than an antivirus package
FoxPro 2.5
- Again, you need a consistent database solution. This is very, very important.
UPS software
- this has a web-based interface
Windows 98
- Gnome or KDE
Autocad for the engineers
- This, like Project, is a deal breaker. I wouldn't suggest top your engineeres that they switch and I'm sure you aren't going to either<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)
Well, unfortunately you don't qualify for a full and total migration to Linux. AutoCad, Lawson, and Project do not at this time have Linux ports or adequate replacements.
However, you are certainly in the market to start a Linux migration starting in the server room. I know without asking that you have data problems. Any company that has sales, contact, and other other data information spread across Access, FoxPro, Act, Maximizer, and LabelMaker Pro has data management problems by definition. You need a database server. My advice would be to build a specific business case. Once you get the idea that its needed, price out a SQL Server 2000 solution and a Linux solution (and of the four open source databases will probably work for you). The SQL Server quote is merely to give the open source solution added flavor.
This will reduce your desktops to AutoCad, Project, Office and Lawson. Target the Office users first. Point out the vulnerabilities, record the virus hit, and plan a migration.
Some offices may find a full replacement of Linux is possible. However, this is pretty new. For a long time, this piecemeal, one at a time transition has been the norm. And, to tell you the truth, a staggered transition is often the smoothest answer. If you want to make the switch, it sounds more than possible to make a business case in your situation.
There is a project management application.
http://mrproject.codefactory.se/
We should also note that the few applications that don't have Linux equivalents might run under Wine or CodeWeavers CrossOver Office.
http://mrproject.codefactory.se/
We should also note that the few applications that don't have Linux equivalents might run under Wine or CodeWeavers CrossOver Office.
Its also good to note how valuable a transition tool CrossOver Office when migrating from Windows to Linux. CrossOver Office is not vulnerable to the same macro viruses as Office running on Windows. Most, but perhaps not all, of the files will smoothly be transitioned to OpenOffice or StarOffice. While new documents are created in the OpenOffice format, an employee can have the option of opening a file in Office if needed.
Why not switch to OpenOffice on the desktops now? There's a windows version. Ditto Mozilla or some other browser. The business case is simple: less vulnerable to common viruses and no licensing fees. Project is still an issue, I know.
Yes, and FoxPro 2.5 apps should be able to run under DOSEMU.
I'm a project manager at a Fortune 500 company. Mr. Project doesn't even have basic capabilities such as printing, let alone support for all phases of project management. But, at least they are aware of PMI.ORG...
At its current 0.5.x release, its not intended for production work, to say trhe least. A stated goal for 1.0, according to the FAQ, includes 'features' like printing. And certainly if you were to use it now, you wouldn't be a project manager at a Fortune 500 company past your next milestone!
However, one person's toy is another's opportunity, and I'm sure MrProject is looking for a few good people who are also aware of the <A HREF="http://www.pmi.org/">Project Management Institute.</a pmi.org>. Any help you could give to the project, and it sounds like you could be very helpful in documentation and steering, could only be beneficial to the project in particular and the Linux community in general.
However, one person's toy is another's opportunity, and I'm sure MrProject is looking for a few good people who are also aware of the <A HREF="http://www.pmi.org/">Project Management Institute.</a pmi.org>. Any help you could give to the project, and it sounds like you could be very helpful in documentation and steering, could only be beneficial to the project in particular and the Linux community in general.
Are there any RDBMSes in the Linux world with front-ends/UIs comparable to Access? If there are, I'm not yet aware of them. Therefore, I have to say that Access is also a deal-breaker.
MySQL and PostgreSQL are superior RDBMSes, no question, but they are engines, back-ends. Where's the user interface that is manipulable by the end user? This is extremely important for people who use a database not as data entry clerks but as analysts.
For instance, that visual query grid is extraordinarily useful for a million things, not least of which is analyzing data without having to write long, complicated SQL statement (although you still have to do that for a few things like Union joins). It is just so productive to have a user-friendly front end. (Just like Paradox, lo those many years ago.)
For a professional developer who is satisfied to create databases from the command line and create some kind of front-end in, say, PHP, the Linux solutions may be workable. But for your so-called knowledge-worker type, Access is an extraordinarily valuable tool.
I'd LOVE to be Microsoft-free. But until the Linux community gets inspired to write an Access-like DB (or, possibly even better, give MySQL or PostgreSQL such a UI!), I have no option. I'd even be happy with something as rummy as FileMaker (which offers a Linux server, but no client). I'm looking forward to a solution, but until then....
MySQL and PostgreSQL are superior RDBMSes, no question, but they are engines, back-ends. Where's the user interface that is manipulable by the end user? This is extremely important for people who use a database not as data entry clerks but as analysts.
For instance, that visual query grid is extraordinarily useful for a million things, not least of which is analyzing data without having to write long, complicated SQL statement (although you still have to do that for a few things like Union joins). It is just so productive to have a user-friendly front end. (Just like Paradox, lo those many years ago.)
For a professional developer who is satisfied to create databases from the command line and create some kind of front-end in, say, PHP, the Linux solutions may be workable. But for your so-called knowledge-worker type, Access is an extraordinarily valuable tool.
I'd LOVE to be Microsoft-free. But until the Linux community gets inspired to write an Access-like DB (or, possibly even better, give MySQL or PostgreSQL such a UI!), I have no option. I'd even be happy with something as rummy as FileMaker (which offers a Linux server, but no client). I'm looking forward to a solution, but until then....
I understand what you're saying. Access as an RDBMS engine in and of itself is mediocre, but as a front end to databases to be accessed on a LAN its hard to beat.
I actually had Access as a deal breaker until I scrolled further and saw the LabelMaker Pro, FoxPro, Act!, and Maximizer. If they had a SQL Server database and attached the stored procedures and views as passthrough queries and built a central repository and maybe some departmental front-ends of standard forms and reports using Access, I'd say leave it alone.
However, the main problem they're facing seems to be data being scattered all over the company with different front-ends. I'm sure that the data is duplicated and out of synch and not everyone who uses the FoxPro systems knows the Maximizer interface.
It sounded like they were an engineering shop who needs to manage clients, contacts and projects. I would imagine that by combining the data into a single location and building some fairly simple web-based front-end, they would be able to enjoy a consistent interface accessible from inside and outside the office, and also get the benfits of data integrity, consistency, and security. Their disaster recovery plan is probably a disaster and the learning curve for new employees is probably not very smooth.
This isn't a practical migration plan for this particular case: I'm only going by one e-mail. It was more of an exercise. In the same vein, going by your one e-mail, I would probably recommend moving the data from Access to a Linux database server back-end and manipulating the data on the client through Access. (Unless, of course, you're already using Access as a front end to a backoffice product) As you mentioned, using Linux is secondary to doing your job and there are no comparable Linux database front ends for analysis purposes.
I actually had Access as a deal breaker until I scrolled further and saw the LabelMaker Pro, FoxPro, Act!, and Maximizer. If they had a SQL Server database and attached the stored procedures and views as passthrough queries and built a central repository and maybe some departmental front-ends of standard forms and reports using Access, I'd say leave it alone.
However, the main problem they're facing seems to be data being scattered all over the company with different front-ends. I'm sure that the data is duplicated and out of synch and not everyone who uses the FoxPro systems knows the Maximizer interface.
It sounded like they were an engineering shop who needs to manage clients, contacts and projects. I would imagine that by combining the data into a single location and building some fairly simple web-based front-end, they would be able to enjoy a consistent interface accessible from inside and outside the office, and also get the benfits of data integrity, consistency, and security. Their disaster recovery plan is probably a disaster and the learning curve for new employees is probably not very smooth.
This isn't a practical migration plan for this particular case: I'm only going by one e-mail. It was more of an exercise. In the same vein, going by your one e-mail, I would probably recommend moving the data from Access to a Linux database server back-end and manipulating the data on the client through Access. (Unless, of course, you're already using Access as a front end to a backoffice product) As you mentioned, using Linux is secondary to doing your job and there are no comparable Linux database front ends for analysis purposes.
Do a google search for a document "OpenOffice.org 1.0, ODBC, and MySQL 'How-to'". It doesn't answer your needs directly, but is a very interesting approach to partial replacement of access.
There is at least one database frontend for Linux that will make Axcess look rather pale. I'm thinking of Recall from the company. It is not free software but neither is Access.
If you don't need that avanced report and programming capabilities of Recll, Openoffice have some features that you might find useful. E.g. graphical query generator.
There is also a lot of web based frontends that allows you to manage your databases without touching the command line.
And as for Ws_FTP, this function is integrated into the KDE file manager and file dialogs, and so is a winzip equivalent.
And there are CAD programs for Linux both free and commercial but no AutoCAD. If you can change CAD software naturally depends on what you do and if you can import old work. Most Linux cad programs can at least import DXF but CAD is not my business so I really can't tell how good they are.
If you don't need that avanced report and programming capabilities of Recll, Openoffice have some features that you might find useful. E.g. graphical query generator.
There is also a lot of web based frontends that allows you to manage your databases without touching the command line.
And as for Ws_FTP, this function is integrated into the KDE file manager and file dialogs, and so is a winzip equivalent.
And there are CAD programs for Linux both free and commercial but no AutoCAD. If you can change CAD software naturally depends on what you do and if you can import old work. Most Linux cad programs can at least import DXF but CAD is not my business so I really can't tell how good they are.
For the curious, the poster is referring to <A HREF="http://www.thekompany.com/products/rekall/">Rekall from theKompany</a thekompany.com>. Its available for download for $US70. If you are using MySQL or PostgreSQL for a database backend, you might find this to be a viable option.
I was aware of this product when I said there were no good alternatives to Access. Cheerleading aside, this product really pales in comparison to Access. There are great products available for Linux, so there's no reason to misrepresent products that don't currently match up to their proprietary competitors. Its unprofessional. Rekall is better than Access like MrProject is better than MS Project.
I was aware of this product when I said there were no good alternatives to Access. Cheerleading aside, this product really pales in comparison to Access. There are great products available for Linux, so there's no reason to misrepresent products that don't currently match up to their proprietary competitors. Its unprofessional. Rekall is better than Access like MrProject is better than MS Project.
In OpenOffice, there is a "Form Autopilot" and a "Database Tool Bar". Basically, these two features just use the Word Processor for creating forms and managing data. There is a document here - http://www.unixodbc.org/doc/OOoMySQL.pdf - the same applies to any ODBC-compatible database.
If you are using Access because of its graphical front end why not give <A HREF="http://ems-hitech.com/mymanager/">. The current version is for windows only but the Linux version is in the works.</a ems-hitech.com>
"Free with your Small Business server 2000 licence:..."<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... disgusting.. TELL VA SOFTWARE - the owners of the "Open Source Development Network" (OSDN) - TO STOP this hypocritical, abusive policy from accepting and displaying ads from micros$HAFT
Look at it this way -- Microsoft is helping to pay the salaries of several people who advocate Linux. I kind of like the irony myself.
The ads have nothing to do with the editorial content here. So I'm not sure how this is an "abusive" policy.
And the Microsoft ads aren't particularly new. So why all the fuss now?
Grant
The ads have nothing to do with the editorial content here. So I'm not sure how this is an "abusive" policy.
And the Microsoft ads aren't particularly new. So why all the fuss now?
Grant
"Abusive"? Oh, yes.. that would have got to do with people Getting their "Free Trial CD", that's better for "Micro$oft's Today" (and worse for GNU & Linux's tommorow), or "Getting Micro$HAFT behind their business" (and right up GNU/Linux's ass..). You see, it is abusive. Micro$hhaft want to destroy Linux, its user community and its development community, and this has been on their mind as far back as 1998 with the leaked "Halloween Report". Yes, it is quite abusive. A strong and healthy developer community on Linux is what has brought it to where it is today; without the mass developers, the users would not come to Linux (note, not the reverse, Linux/GNU/GPL developers inherantly don't have profit as their motive, and therefore the size of the user community is not important) M$ will therefore target that, and employ a corrupt company such as yours, VA $HAFTWARE to corrupt and pollute the community. If you will, the Linux community will embrace Micro$Haft, propetiery, anti-GPL, anti-Linux, and in turn embrace and extinguish itself.
I'll repeat for you nieve, short-sighted mind: yes, it is abusive, very abusive.
And "the Microsoft ads aren't particulatly new. So why all the fuss now"?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. because I'm sick and sickened of it. This is unacceptable, period. I don't care when or how it started, but you own the prominent and infleuential network of "OSDN" sites -- supposeably used to support and promote Linux and Open Source, its development and community -- and it comes with certain responsibilites. One such responsibilty is to look after the communities interests. Period. This does not include accepting and displaying ads from a company intent on destroying the GNU/Linux community and its revoluion - Microsoft. I don't know how you can find this acceptable, because I, and a large number of your "OSDN" readers and visitors, do not find it acceptable at all. You are just exploiting and abusing the community in a most unremorseful, irresponsible, unacceptable manner.
"... I kind of like the irony myself"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. yea? Well I don't. I find it completely unacceptable; abusive, irresponsible, ignorant and hypocritical. Microsoft has no place *near* Linux and it and its community has been noted for taking this stance in the past. Which is absolutely right; Linux is competition, not only that, very competant and serious competition, and on those terms M$ will (try to) destroy it. We should keep as far away from M$HAFT as possible; we should resist it and oppose it, either that or we, Linux and the Linux community will be destroyed. Frankly, your site is not in the interests of the community, its development and community, and I find your va$HAFTWARE-M$ partnership unacceptable and irresponsible; indeed, I find the very existance of VA $HAFTWARE pityful (though anger invoking is probably a better word..), pathetic and parasite-like (VA S$HAFTWARe (the corrupt failure Augustin to be precise), have actually admitted most of their revenue comes from their "OSDN" sites). I don't want our community corrupted and polluted - as is MICRO$HAFT's intention- which is the prime reason I am not in favour of your accepting and displaying of VA$HAFTWARE-M$ partnership ads.
"The ads have nothing to do with the editorial content here. So I'm not sure how this is an "abusive" policy.".. you know right well why I find this abusive. The OSDN -- Open Source Development Network -- sites are visited by a vast, extensive number of the Linux community, both users and developers. They are ripe for exploitation and abuse; and the corrupt VA $HAFTWARE "OSDN" network is a perfect central place for M$ execute. M$ has this large community of the revolution, competitor it wants to destroy right at its fingertips.
Users (the used and exploited) of the OSDN, do not accept this; it's completely unacceptable.
So Grant ("the hypocritical corrupt wanker"), please shut your mouth, and instead listen and respond (and you know what I mean by respond<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. stop accepting blood money from $MHAFT and displaying their ads on the OSDN -- open Source Devlopemtn Network -- directly at the Linux/GNU community.. Period.) to the communities demands. And thanks for your consideration; for reading my initial post, and replying to it, which indicates you find it imporant and cannot be ignored. Well, at least I agree with you there, it cannot be ignored, and is very important to me, and the Linux community as a whole, for its development and competance and ability to compete. I want to see those ads gone. I want to see the abusive, irresponsible va$HAFTWARE-M$ partnership terminated, now. I will not go away, you may delete my post but you cannot delete my opinion. Listen, consider, and take action. VA $HAFTWARE, "Grant", end the exploitation. I don't care if all you change is that - those M$ ads - just change it.
OH and mods/censors: Please stop deleting my posts. Stop restraining free speech, I suggest you listen to these concerns. You may delete my posts, supress my opinion, but you cannot "delete" my opinion. I will continue with comments like this; it concerns myself and the GNU/Linux/Open Source community as a whole."
I'll repeat for you nieve, short-sighted mind: yes, it is abusive, very abusive.
And "the Microsoft ads aren't particulatly new. So why all the fuss now"?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. because I'm sick and sickened of it. This is unacceptable, period. I don't care when or how it started, but you own the prominent and infleuential network of "OSDN" sites -- supposeably used to support and promote Linux and Open Source, its development and community -- and it comes with certain responsibilites. One such responsibilty is to look after the communities interests. Period. This does not include accepting and displaying ads from a company intent on destroying the GNU/Linux community and its revoluion - Microsoft. I don't know how you can find this acceptable, because I, and a large number of your "OSDN" readers and visitors, do not find it acceptable at all. You are just exploiting and abusing the community in a most unremorseful, irresponsible, unacceptable manner.
"... I kind of like the irony myself"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. yea? Well I don't. I find it completely unacceptable; abusive, irresponsible, ignorant and hypocritical. Microsoft has no place *near* Linux and it and its community has been noted for taking this stance in the past. Which is absolutely right; Linux is competition, not only that, very competant and serious competition, and on those terms M$ will (try to) destroy it. We should keep as far away from M$HAFT as possible; we should resist it and oppose it, either that or we, Linux and the Linux community will be destroyed. Frankly, your site is not in the interests of the community, its development and community, and I find your va$HAFTWARE-M$ partnership unacceptable and irresponsible; indeed, I find the very existance of VA $HAFTWARE pityful (though anger invoking is probably a better word..), pathetic and parasite-like (VA S$HAFTWARe (the corrupt failure Augustin to be precise), have actually admitted most of their revenue comes from their "OSDN" sites). I don't want our community corrupted and polluted - as is MICRO$HAFT's intention- which is the prime reason I am not in favour of your accepting and displaying of VA$HAFTWARE-M$ partnership ads.
"The ads have nothing to do with the editorial content here. So I'm not sure how this is an "abusive" policy.".. you know right well why I find this abusive. The OSDN -- Open Source Development Network -- sites are visited by a vast, extensive number of the Linux community, both users and developers. They are ripe for exploitation and abuse; and the corrupt VA $HAFTWARE "OSDN" network is a perfect central place for M$ execute. M$ has this large community of the revolution, competitor it wants to destroy right at its fingertips.
Users (the used and exploited) of the OSDN, do not accept this; it's completely unacceptable.
So Grant ("the hypocritical corrupt wanker"), please shut your mouth, and instead listen and respond (and you know what I mean by respond<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. stop accepting blood money from $MHAFT and displaying their ads on the OSDN -- open Source Devlopemtn Network -- directly at the Linux/GNU community.. Period.) to the communities demands. And thanks for your consideration; for reading my initial post, and replying to it, which indicates you find it imporant and cannot be ignored. Well, at least I agree with you there, it cannot be ignored, and is very important to me, and the Linux community as a whole, for its development and competance and ability to compete. I want to see those ads gone. I want to see the abusive, irresponsible va$HAFTWARE-M$ partnership terminated, now. I will not go away, you may delete my post but you cannot delete my opinion. Listen, consider, and take action. VA $HAFTWARE, "Grant", end the exploitation. I don't care if all you change is that - those M$ ads - just change it.
OH and mods/censors: Please stop deleting my posts. Stop restraining free speech, I suggest you listen to these concerns. You may delete my posts, supress my opinion, but you cannot "delete" my opinion. I will continue with comments like this; it concerns myself and the GNU/Linux/Open Source community as a whole."
I agree with you. When it comes to Microsoft, there is no middle ground. Posting MS adds is a kick in the teeth to the free software movement.
I find it pretty funny.
Actually, the OSDN's decision to close down their Windows-centric site, DaveCentral, may result in MS not renewing their ad contract. In the meantime, I certainly don't think that an MS banner ad has influenced the editorial content of NewsForge or the other OSDN sites. Please read the prior sentence for proof.
I'm not bothered by the idea that MS advertises on this site. MS advertises on all IT related web sites. Just don't click it and let these nice people pay their bills. This is a tough business and they're doing a fine job.
I am bothered by the idea that more open source companies don't advertise here, though. When I hear about a new distro version, or a new open source product, its not because these companies sent the OSDN dime one in advertising; its because OSDN covers it for free. It still amazes me that these companies ignore such an inexpensive, tighly focused advertising medium. And its not that these companies would be preaching to the choir. Which company offers a CD-bootable firewall solution, SuSE, RedHat, both or neither? You have an IBM p-series. Which distro or distros can you use?
No one on this site is going to bother getting an evaluation copy of VS<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net, so no money is flowing from OSDN to MS. Just the opposite. However, I do worry that so little thought and energy is coming from the major commercial open source companies that they can't even be bothered to spend a few bucks to actually move product and make money. So don't blame OSDN for having MS ads. Blame those who don't have ads here.
I'm not bothered by the idea that MS advertises on this site. MS advertises on all IT related web sites. Just don't click it and let these nice people pay their bills. This is a tough business and they're doing a fine job.
I am bothered by the idea that more open source companies don't advertise here, though. When I hear about a new distro version, or a new open source product, its not because these companies sent the OSDN dime one in advertising; its because OSDN covers it for free. It still amazes me that these companies ignore such an inexpensive, tighly focused advertising medium. And its not that these companies would be preaching to the choir. Which company offers a CD-bootable firewall solution, SuSE, RedHat, both or neither? You have an IBM p-series. Which distro or distros can you use?
No one on this site is going to bother getting an evaluation copy of VS<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net, so no money is flowing from OSDN to MS. Just the opposite. However, I do worry that so little thought and energy is coming from the major commercial open source companies that they can't even be bothered to spend a few bucks to actually move product and make money. So don't blame OSDN for having MS ads. Blame those who don't have ads here.
"No one on this site is going to bother getting an evaluation copy of VS<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Net, so no money is flowing from OSDN to MS. Just the opposite. However, I do worry that so little thought and energy is coming from the major commercial open source companies that they can't even be bothered to spend a few bucks to actually move product and make money. So don't blame OSDN for having MS ads. Blame those who don't have ads here."<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. Sure? They most certainly could, and that's what
"Blame those who don't have ads here."
Hmmm.. reason? They don't have the kind of money you ask for; i.e. the amount you receive and have become accustomed to from the likes of IBM, Oracle and -- with an *endless* supply of money, intent on destroying the Linux revolution, its development and its community -- Micro$haft. See? Your opinions are unfounded ; lies and FUD. Nice try though. And it almost sounded sincere too. M$ has no place near Linux, period (else we are destroyed); M$ ads have no place on the prominent OSDN sites, period. End the va$HAFTWARE-M$ partership.
"Blame those who don't have ads here."
Hmmm.. reason? They don't have the kind of money you ask for; i.e. the amount you receive and have become accustomed to from the likes of IBM, Oracle and -- with an *endless* supply of money, intent on destroying the Linux revolution, its development and its community -- Micro$haft. See? Your opinions are unfounded ; lies and FUD. Nice try though. And it almost sounded sincere too. M$ has no place near Linux, period (else we are destroyed); M$ ads have no place on the prominent OSDN sites, period. End the va$HAFTWARE-M$ partership.
I would hardly consider the ad prices of OSDN to be the kind of thing only IBM, Microsoft, et. al. can afford. APPX, Covalent, and others also don't have the revenue of an IBM and they advertise here. For the most part, the ads are made up of filler like ThinkGeek, an OSDN company.
I know you were really excited to write another e-mail with all those mispellings and dollar signs and accuse anyone who doesn't agree with your little fifteen-yesr old outlook on life, but you're wrong. OSDN sells ads because they need the money. Banner ad sales have been in the toilet for about two years. Banner ad sales for an open source site must be trivial. They wouldn't have sold the space if they didn't need the money.
I'm willing to continue to support open source sites like OSDN because I support the community. In the meantime, I'm enough of a grownup to not get my panties in a wad because something I see here makes me sad. One day, when you know longer live in your parent's basement, you may feel the same way. Its a maturity thing.
I know you were really excited to write another e-mail with all those mispellings and dollar signs and accuse anyone who doesn't agree with your little fifteen-yesr old outlook on life, but you're wrong. OSDN sells ads because they need the money. Banner ad sales have been in the toilet for about two years. Banner ad sales for an open source site must be trivial. They wouldn't have sold the space if they didn't need the money.
I'm willing to continue to support open source sites like OSDN because I support the community. In the meantime, I'm enough of a grownup to not get my panties in a wad because something I see here makes me sad. One day, when you know longer live in your parent's basement, you may feel the same way. Its a maturity thing.
I have been wanting to say this for a while but haven't really had the time or place to say it so i might as well place a little summary here:
we all hate/dislike MS but look at MSDN...it's a great resource for developers...look at apples development sites...look at Suns development sites...look at what we have? OSDN?
what the hell does OSDN have to do with Open Source developers? NOTHING! it's a commercial joke.
what i have wanted to do but don't really have the time or resources is create a website called something like "Linux Developers Network" or something similar.
This would be a site much like MSDN or ADC...
a place where anybody who wanted to start developing for or on linux could go and find all the resources he or she need to get started, get help, find information, etc...
the site would include code examples, linux specific tutorials, API's, news pertaining to linux development, reviews and info about IDE's.
information about all programing languages, GUI toolkits, libraries, etc.
Information about conforming to the LSB!
OSDN is stupid
we all hate/dislike MS but look at MSDN...it's a great resource for developers...look at apples development sites...look at Suns development sites...look at what we have? OSDN?
what the hell does OSDN have to do with Open Source developers? NOTHING! it's a commercial joke.
what i have wanted to do but don't really have the time or resources is create a website called something like "Linux Developers Network" or something similar.
This would be a site much like MSDN or ADC...
a place where anybody who wanted to start developing for or on linux could go and find all the resources he or she need to get started, get help, find information, etc...
the site would include code examples, linux specific tutorials, API's, news pertaining to linux development, reviews and info about IDE's.
information about all programing languages, GUI toolkits, libraries, etc.
Information about conforming to the LSB!
OSDN is stupid
While we have sourceforge for advanced projects, Linux really could use some good hosting sites dedicated to helping beginner developers. Since you can't find the time or resources to do it yourself, you could start by writing a clear proposition for such a network to exist and sending a copy to the newsforge editors.
I don't know that we need a hosting site, but a good site covering APIs, getting started with Sourceforge, using GTK/QT/etc. from beginning levels to advanced levels, and more would be really, truly useful.
I don't know that we need a hosting site, but a good site covering APIs, getting started with Sourceforge, using GTK/QT/etc. from beginning levels to advanced levels, and more would be really, truly useful.
Actually, this swite already exists. http://www.linuxnewbie.org/nhf/Programming
There is a difference between open source and proprietary software in that the references will be most valuable if they are community-oriented rather than company-oriented. If you are developing in Visual Studio and WebSphere, you won't find a single location for information, although each individual resource will be very deep.
I don't blame the OSDN for not providing this particular service, particularly since projects like the Linux Documentation Project already fill this purpose. And this site in particular is branded as the news source of ercord for Linux and open source, so product documentation and tutorials would be out of place.
It is a bit jarring when you're used to a resource like msdn, though.
There is a difference between open source and proprietary software in that the references will be most valuable if they are community-oriented rather than company-oriented. If you are developing in Visual Studio and WebSphere, you won't find a single location for information, although each individual resource will be very deep.
I don't blame the OSDN for not providing this particular service, particularly since projects like the Linux Documentation Project already fill this purpose. And this site in particular is branded as the news source of ercord for Linux and open source, so product documentation and tutorials would be out of place.
It is a bit jarring when you're used to a resource like msdn, though.
Linuxnewbie.org, LDP, etc...
is NOT at all what I am talking about
and what does this have to do with being proprietary or open source? NOTHING
and what i want to do IS forming a community, participation is the only way to make something like this work!
and i was not talking about this site in particular, or linux.com, or slashdot because YES such a thing would be out of place...i am not suggesting NewsForge or Linux.com or OSDN for that matter take on this task...i would rather it be an initiative done by the community with support from others (like oreilly, IBM, RH, UL, etc....) to provide good documention, examples, tutorials, etc. for current and future Linux programmers!
is NOT at all what I am talking about
and what does this have to do with being proprietary or open source? NOTHING
and what i want to do IS forming a community, participation is the only way to make something like this work!
and i was not talking about this site in particular, or linux.com, or slashdot because YES such a thing would be out of place...i am not suggesting NewsForge or Linux.com or OSDN for that matter take on this task...i would rather it be an initiative done by the community with support from others (like oreilly, IBM, RH, UL, etc....) to provide good documention, examples, tutorials, etc. for current and future Linux programmers!
It's called http://www.google.com/linux
Well, then what are you talking about?
You want a site driven by the community to provide good documentation, tutorials, etc, for current and future Linux programmers.
So for documentation, I referred to the Linux Documentation Project. For those unfamiliar, it's a project devoted to providing documentation for Linux. Those interested in Linux and seeking documentation may wish to try there. Those in the Linux community who wish to provide documentation to a well-known, community supported project may wish to try there. You see, for this to work, its important to form a community. Participation is the only way to make something like this work.
And when I said that open source sites would materially differ from proprietary sites, since that was the point of the original post, its because the of this community-driven aspect. When was the last time you wrote a RedBook? How many shell scripting tutorials are on msdn? I mentioned the OSDN's role, because that was also part of the original post. You see, this is a discussion forum, and there are these things called threads.
O'Reilly will publish books, because that's what they do. IBM will publish RedBooks and RedPapers, some for using Linux on IBM systems, because that's what they do. Sites dedicated to providing Linux documentation online for free will continue to do so. Advanced programmers will host their projects on SourceForge while beginning and intermediate programmers can have open, free access to the source code to grow and learn as developers. Hopefully, as they do so, they will provide bug reports, documentation and code, as appropriate to their skills.
You see, nothing in your little rant, all-caps aside, is ever going to have any concrete results, because you're asking for something that already exists. The thread, and thought, end here. What will actually happen is that the community will continue to support the existing, estabished projects because they do the job well now and will continue to mature and grow. You can take your puppy energy and put it into helping the existing community grow. There have been Linux newbies who've grown up and learned through these channels. They work. Try them.
You want a site driven by the community to provide good documentation, tutorials, etc, for current and future Linux programmers.
So for documentation, I referred to the Linux Documentation Project. For those unfamiliar, it's a project devoted to providing documentation for Linux. Those interested in Linux and seeking documentation may wish to try there. Those in the Linux community who wish to provide documentation to a well-known, community supported project may wish to try there. You see, for this to work, its important to form a community. Participation is the only way to make something like this work.
And when I said that open source sites would materially differ from proprietary sites, since that was the point of the original post, its because the of this community-driven aspect. When was the last time you wrote a RedBook? How many shell scripting tutorials are on msdn? I mentioned the OSDN's role, because that was also part of the original post. You see, this is a discussion forum, and there are these things called threads.
O'Reilly will publish books, because that's what they do. IBM will publish RedBooks and RedPapers, some for using Linux on IBM systems, because that's what they do. Sites dedicated to providing Linux documentation online for free will continue to do so. Advanced programmers will host their projects on SourceForge while beginning and intermediate programmers can have open, free access to the source code to grow and learn as developers. Hopefully, as they do so, they will provide bug reports, documentation and code, as appropriate to their skills.
You see, nothing in your little rant, all-caps aside, is ever going to have any concrete results, because you're asking for something that already exists. The thread, and thought, end here. What will actually happen is that the community will continue to support the existing, estabished projects because they do the job well now and will continue to mature and grow. You can take your puppy energy and put it into helping the existing community grow. There have been Linux newbies who've grown up and learned through these channels. They work. Try them.
All in all I'd rather have Microsoft wasting their mony trying to sell to us than spending it FUDing us somewhere else, or worse buying bad legislation.
-Todd
-Todd
"All in all I'd rather have Microsoft wasting their mony trying to sell to us than spending it FUDing us somewhere else, or worse buying bad legislation."<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. really? Well they're doing all of the above anyway. "FUDing us somewhere else".. yes. "buying bad legislation"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. most definately (ever hear of "fritz "M$-0WN-me" hollings" and the TCPA?.. with M$, the government and the record and movie assocaations tightly involved). Maybe we could do without such a direct method like M$ VIsual Basic and $hin/IllegAL-dows ads on the VA $HAFTWARE owned OSDN -- Open SOurce Developmnetn Network?
Did anyone notice that their press release has "links" that don't even work?
I don't mean a mistyped URL -- I mean text that's underlined and blue, but not actually a hyperlink.
I don't mean a mistyped URL -- I mean text that's underlined and blue, but not actually a hyperlink.
I thought that was just me! I'm using Lynx and I was getting really annoyed. I'm so glad to be able to blame them instead!
While it is great to have this kind of software available for Linux, it is not what the market really needs.
Now if they made Simply Accounting available on Linux I think they would have many more enquiries.
I tried to find information about their Linux products after the press release, and the information is buried so deeply in their site that it almost looks like they are embarassed to be offering a Linux version.
Now if they made Simply Accounting available on Linux I think they would have many more enquiries.
I tried to find information about their Linux products after the press release, and the information is buried so deeply in their site that it almost looks like they are embarassed to be offering a Linux version.
Silk Systems in Canada has been
a linux solution for a while now, growing from
ALPHA micro > SCO xenix > OPENSERVER to Linux
now www.silksystems.com
a linux solution for a while now, growing from
ALPHA micro > SCO xenix > OPENSERVER to Linux
now www.silksystems.com
Actually, Quicken/QuickBooks are probably more used.
Well there is a good commercial replacement: appgen.com
Runs on linux, win, mac. Priced about the same as competition.
Well there is a good commercial replacement: appgen.com
Runs on linux, win, mac. Priced about the same as competition.
I'm not familiar with the particular software package you refer to. The name, however, brings -- to my mind at least -- something which is small-office in nature, and small offices without an IT staff are more likely to be M$ shops.
Let's face it: Linux is a tad more technical than Winderz to set up and administer, right? I'm not talking about whether you know where to find some obscure menu selection in an unnecessarily convoluted hyerachial menu structure designed to confuse all except those who have taken some form of vendor-proprietary certification such that they now where the menu choice can be found. I'm talking nuts and bolts, like the difference between someone who has created code and someone who uses wizards. I don't have a problem with this. There's nothing wrong with someone who uses wizards to create<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... uh<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... "solutions." It's just like comparing apples and oranges. A small shop, therefore -- without so much as a guy who knows how to compile something if need be -- is statistically favorable to running some version of Winderz.
That's why I don't see a small-office accounting system as benefitting the Linux initiative. A mid-to-large size accounting system, however, is what businesses that have an IT staff could use. The IT staff can deal with Linux and (to be perfectly honest) the users don't even have to know. As long as it works and they can be productive and get good reviews and get their Christmas bonus, a lot of users would not care if they were running Commodore BASIC.
Art
bikermagi@yahoo.com
Let's face it: Linux is a tad more technical than Winderz to set up and administer, right? I'm not talking about whether you know where to find some obscure menu selection in an unnecessarily convoluted hyerachial menu structure designed to confuse all except those who have taken some form of vendor-proprietary certification such that they now where the menu choice can be found. I'm talking nuts and bolts, like the difference between someone who has created code and someone who uses wizards. I don't have a problem with this. There's nothing wrong with someone who uses wizards to create<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... uh<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... "solutions." It's just like comparing apples and oranges. A small shop, therefore -- without so much as a guy who knows how to compile something if need be -- is statistically favorable to running some version of Winderz.
That's why I don't see a small-office accounting system as benefitting the Linux initiative. A mid-to-large size accounting system, however, is what businesses that have an IT staff could use. The IT staff can deal with Linux and (to be perfectly honest) the users don't even have to know. As long as it works and they can be productive and get good reviews and get their Christmas bonus, a lot of users would not care if they were running Commodore BASIC.
Art
bikermagi@yahoo.com
> That's why I don't see a small-office accounting system as benefitting the Linux initiative.
That's very shortsighted. There is a lot of Linux users out there that would be happy if they could lay their hands on a package equivalent to QuickBooks. Hence, existence of such a package is benefiting linux initiative. I've heard many times: "Well, that is all nice, but is there a program like QuickBooks on it"?
The things is, the more packages of a good quality are available for linux users, the more likelihood is that people would switch. I am not sure where you get the idea that Linux system is harder to administer -- if we're talking about a basic workstation/desktop system. I would agree with you 2 years ago, but nowadays, it is no longer true, at least not in the extent you tend to imply.
Desktop distros came long way since then, and although the learning curve is somewhat steeper than with windoze, it is not a rocket science. If may 15 years old daughter, which is an average student (more C's than B's) can adminster her Mandrake system without my inervention, then most people can.
That's very shortsighted. There is a lot of Linux users out there that would be happy if they could lay their hands on a package equivalent to QuickBooks. Hence, existence of such a package is benefiting linux initiative. I've heard many times: "Well, that is all nice, but is there a program like QuickBooks on it"?
The things is, the more packages of a good quality are available for linux users, the more likelihood is that people would switch. I am not sure where you get the idea that Linux system is harder to administer -- if we're talking about a basic workstation/desktop system. I would agree with you 2 years ago, but nowadays, it is no longer true, at least not in the extent you tend to imply.
Desktop distros came long way since then, and although the learning curve is somewhat steeper than with windoze, it is not a rocket science. If may 15 years old daughter, which is an average student (more C's than B's) can adminster her Mandrake system without my inervention, then most people can.
Adobe Photoshop and Illlustrator on Linux
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 27, 2002 09:07 AM
I hope Adobe will conwert some of it's apps to *NIX systems. This wqould be big boost for us developers who don't want to be baundered by one OS. I think this would be easy transwer for Adobe becouse new Mac's OS X is basically a UNIX.
People need to understand that a 1.0 should be virtually bug-free. That's what the open source/free software developers head for anyways.
"Not a 1.0 version release" sounds detrimental to me. "Post 1.0 version release" would have been much better.
Artaxerxes
"Not a 1.0 version release" sounds detrimental to me. "Post 1.0 version release" would have been much better.
Artaxerxes
When I last checked, this was a web version, not a linux version. Unfortunately, it only runs on Microsoft IIS. So, in otherwords, this is deceptive at best and an outright lie at worst. We have had several requests for Accpac to run on linux, but since no one who runs linux on the desktop would have an IIS server, then we do not get the install.
If it truly runs without any MS, then great, I will supply them with clients to interview, otherwise, port to Apache, now.
If it truly runs without any MS, then great, I will supply them with clients to interview, otherwise, port to Apache, now.
Tell it to the people of macromedia...
I don't see anything different here with this package. This accounting package will "soak" you in Linux just as well as it does in windows.
I have to deal with their software at work for windows. When it is properly set up, it works well. But when you need to change that's when the soaking begins. Between their planned module obsolesence, incompatabilities or issues with their existing modules, their oxymoron called support plus, and dealing with their qualified "partners", is a steady stream of cash out of your bottom line right into their pockets for months or years to come.
I've paid far more for the advantage series than all the MS products combined. I've paid exceedingly more for their software support than I did for MS. I don't see why Accpac would be any different cross platform.
Have a look at their pricing and licensing schemes. I look at MS, what's the difference?
I have to deal with their software at work for windows. When it is properly set up, it works well. But when you need to change that's when the soaking begins. Between their planned module obsolesence, incompatabilities or issues with their existing modules, their oxymoron called support plus, and dealing with their qualified "partners", is a steady stream of cash out of your bottom line right into their pockets for months or years to come.
I've paid far more for the advantage series than all the MS products combined. I've paid exceedingly more for their software support than I did for MS. I don't see why Accpac would be any different cross platform.
Have a look at their pricing and licensing schemes. I look at MS, what's the difference?
The windows version is to comberson to use. Set up properly or not. It is not a program for the medium size business. I know because I work with it and paid the price to get it set up and am still paying to keep it running after only 2 years.
Linux techies need to get their head out of their your know what. I use linux but I'm looking at get Mac just for OSX because apple finally got something right other than their hardware sucks.
3 things need to happen to linux
1. Linux needs a good easy GUI like OS X (most important to compete with WINXP and OSX)
2. Adobe products and Accounting apps need to be ported.
3. but keep the OS powerful so the techies can deside what they want to use
3 things need to happen to linux
1. Linux needs a good easy GUI like OS X (most important to compete with WINXP and OSX)
2. Adobe products and Accounting apps need to be ported.
3. but keep the OS powerful so the techies can deside what they want to use
What accounting apps are you talking about? Code weavers already has the ability to run quickbooks on linux using their cross office thingy.
I agree with your points. The desktop should be more friendly for the mass user, but still I would hate it if some of the "advanced user" features were sacrificed for that.
By the way, have you tried KDE and GNOME? Whatever you knew about these GUIs might be changed now. Try the new Mandrake 9.0, Red Hat 8.0 or SuSE 8.1 which claim that they are getting ready for the desktop! I have tried older versions of these GUIs and they were pretty easy and friendly right there. I can only imagine what it looks now, I am eager to try it.
Beware, Micro$oft!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
By the way, have you tried KDE and GNOME? Whatever you knew about these GUIs might be changed now. Try the new Mandrake 9.0, Red Hat 8.0 or SuSE 8.1 which claim that they are getting ready for the desktop! I have tried older versions of these GUIs and they were pretty easy and friendly right there. I can only imagine what it looks now, I am eager to try it.
Beware, Micro$oft!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
this is great
Posted by: DCallaghan on September 27, 2002 01:25 AMThe press release claims that the product runs on Linux on the client and the server, but I didn't see a client module on their web site. Hopefully this will change soon. There will also need to be more people using this to make sure that the accompanying Excel spreadsheets work in OpenOffice.
I'm hoping this is just growing pains and this will turn out to be a solid Linux product. And, of course, once a big company like CA gets a product like this onto Linux, we should see other products follow suit to stay competitive. With the likely exception of Great Plains, of course<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)
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